trilemaossasepiatrinquetrilema-hanbotagriculturalsupremacyeuloraspykedlobbespizarro
319d 14h 8m126d 18h 51m2d 9h 37m113d 5h 22m4m9d 8h 55m2d 7h 52m11d 1h 3m200d 11h 59m
krankendenken



diana_coman: morning
chetty: mornings
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i looked at my st batch, you're prolly right re 5093!
diana_coman: aha
diana_coman: do you have/make any more cft?
mircea_popescu: mnop, outta grass.
diana_coman: ugh, the game get grass to make grass
mircea_popescu: well ?
diana_coman: danielpbarron, what do you sell grass or cft for?
mircea_popescu: you got like what, >1k cft ? where's the 5k grass from it!!11
mircea_popescu: didja use it to mine other shit ?
diana_coman: what are you saying?
diana_coman: you sold me 600 cft for that matter, not 1k
mircea_popescu: that if you don't maintain grass-positive operations do not expect there to be grass lol.
diana_coman: and that was already for the > 3k grass I sold you before
diana_coman: and yes, I did mine grass mainly with it, but grass never worked well for me and there is no change in there, lol
mircea_popescu: you got 500 of which 250 was from your own and then 660 or somethinf also 250 from your own iirc. point being :
diana_coman: really
mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter it wasa "from before", 1%, 50%, 100%.
mircea_popescu: because i can't put into crafting the same grass twice.
diana_coman: the k's sold before don't matter, right?
diana_coman: all of a sudden
mircea_popescu: well, they don't, because they went into cft, also sold before eh ?
diana_coman: no
diana_coman: that's the thing, lol
mircea_popescu: so if you bring 1mn grass, take 300k thread, and then do not bring back 1mn grass,
diana_coman: maybe you sold it, but not to me
mircea_popescu: there's not going to be 300k thread no matter what,
mircea_popescu: and irrespective of any considerations.
diana_coman: sure, I get that and I am not disputing that
mircea_popescu: well, i didn't keep very close tabs, but i can assure you that grenadine dug up most of the grass ever dug up, like 55k of it.
mircea_popescu: so EVERYONE but her got more cft than they brought grass.
mircea_popescu: that's a fact.
diana_coman: oh, considering it from the start I surely got more cft and I brought grass, fully agree on that
mircea_popescu: now, the chain of history may or may not be reconstructed, but in any case it doesn't so much matter.
mircea_popescu: grass' been on alert for weeks now, and what that means is, broadly, that if you use it to dig other things you draw down the supply.
diana_coman: anyway, I don't get now: what is this about exactly?
mircea_popescu: that cft takes grass to make!
mircea_popescu: so bringeth grasses to me!
diana_coman: I did not use it to dig up other things, that was entirely your assumption there
diana_coman: all I said was that mining grass is (and has always been) in the negative for me
diana_coman: just that
mircea_popescu: i asked, yo.
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> didja use it to mine other shit ?
chetty: I got some grass, couple hundred I think
mircea_popescu: nice. you need cft chetty ?
diana_coman: well, I have about 800 grass and will get some out of some ordinaries too, but the thing is that basically I am blocked for more than half the time waiting for cft anyway
diana_coman: but whatever
chetty: well diana_coman I can make cft, but doubt you would like the q
diana_coman: yes chetty, I can make cft too and I still don't like the quality
diana_coman: that's the trouble
mircea_popescu: diana_coman if you used 1k+ cft in one day, 800 grass isn't helping you much is it.
diana_coman: essentially if I make it myself or get it lower quality
diana_coman: I am basically getting even less return probably
diana_coman: as in even less grass out of it
diana_coman: so even worse
mircea_popescu: what qual grass you dig up ?
diana_coman: 164 or there
chetty: so not long ago we wanting more lower players, now we wantmore higher?
diana_coman: I still want more lower players, chetty
mircea_popescu: diana_coman so you actually took 1160 q203 thread, went mining and got 800 q 164 grass back ?
mircea_popescu: now that sucks.
diana_coman: they might actually get more grass out of it
diana_coman: no mircea_popescu it's not that bad (or even worse, depending on how you put it): since I was stuck for quite a while on this, I did make about 300 cft of my own too and use it to get at least the data on how it fares compared to higher q
diana_coman: and yeah, unsurprisingly, not recommended
mircea_popescu: ok so then you still got the thread i sold you ?
diana_coman: might I add that my cft is not *that* bad (about 155 or a bit higher iirc)
diana_coman: 1. used up all the thread and dug up about 2k of grass 2. made 300 cft out of 1k grass 3. dug up about 500 grass
mircea_popescu: that's pretty bad still.
diana_coman: yes, of course
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2000 * 1.64 / (1160*2.03*3)
mircea_popescu: meh
mircea_popescu: < 50% ffs.
mircea_popescu: this is a large part of our problem really. in fact by far the largest : if grass mining is < 100% cft stores draw down.
diana_coman: well, if you compute it globally
diana_coman: you'd have to add in daniel's hit
mircea_popescu: and i suspect a large part of WHY grass mining is < 100% is because of remarkable and above finds which we store rather than dig
diana_coman: and then it prolly gets up
mircea_popescu: exactly. but daniel wait a second
mircea_popescu: NO. you don't add that in. because thread is not used there.
diana_coman: uhm?
diana_coman: did he get it out of a tiny?
mircea_popescu: you use 0 thread to find
mircea_popescu: a sizable or anything.
diana_coman: I don't mean that, no
diana_coman: I meant the 22k of grass he got out of a small or smth
diana_coman: and dunno, maybe it would make more sense for me to just sell *all* the claims, small and above, but who wants to build them ?
mircea_popescu: he did ?
diana_coman: I don't really mind either way, as I wouldn't mine grass if it weren't needed
diana_coman: yes, he did
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i suspect that may not be the case for strict grass counts (not for value per se) because well, you get lower q
diana_coman: or so he said
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you got 20k grass yo ?
diana_coman: that supposition should really be tested sometime as I start doubting it
diana_coman: chetty, whenever you are in, would you like to make a test? I give you some claims and stuff and you mine them so that we can compare your yield with mine ?
diana_coman: or hanbot? ^
diana_coman: or mod6, jurov
diana_coman: and btw, fwiw re that theory of yours, daniel gets higher q on grass than me so by your theory he should get less than me <- doesn't seem to be the case, lol
chetty: I always get 1 on tiny and I havent had a small in along time but back when I did it was 1or2, but my qual stinks
diana_coman: got 148 out of an ordianry....
mircea_popescu: chetty o you should do that. what q grass do you mine, under 100 ?
diana_coman: chetty, it doesn't matter what quality you get
diana_coman: and I'll give you the claims with all
diana_coman: my idea is to test simply on a set of my claims (all of them): like I give you 20 small claims and you mine them, we make total; then I mine 20 small claims of mine too and we compare output or something like that
diana_coman: same thread quality too
diana_coman: well, assuming we have thread for that kind of experiment, lol
mircea_popescu: ^ good idea.
chetty: uh, ok, let me put some stuff in storage and I will mine some for ya
chetty: I have 54 threads I can contribute
diana_coman: what q?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu I have 883 grass, would you make some cft out of it for the above exp?
chetty: 42 (prophectic)
diana_coman: and even better chetty, I just built one ordinary and got the grand total of 148
diana_coman: I have another ordinary
diana_coman: I'll give it to you to build
diana_coman: I am really curious what you get out of it
chetty: wow what does that take?
diana_coman: will give you everything for it too, of course
diana_coman: no worries, I'll give you all the stuff
diana_coman: *just* some lotus harlots, slithy tove, 14 eps and all that jazz
diana_coman: but hey, it's all positive in about 1million years, lol
mircea_popescu: diana_coman aite. i usually prefer to you know, put larger batches and forget it, but for experiument who can say no.
mircea_popescu: firing it up.
diana_coman: I know, I wouldn't have asked if not the exp thing, thank you
chetty: ok I am all set, not carrying extra grass or anything, just the threads and som little bits
diana_coman: 1 sec to give mp the grass
diana_coman: you can live the threads too
diana_coman: we need high q ones
chetty: ok
diana_coman: will go now for the ordinary only
diana_coman: 1 sec
diana_coman: while mp makes the thread
chetty: hmm I suspect I should have gotten your pilot program :P
chetty: ftr my building rank is 16
diana_coman: oh, no worries, will go with you then
chetty: oops wait a sec srry
diana_coman: ?
diana_coman: ah
chetty: I had a snail ..
mircea_popescu: apparently danielpbarron took a bite out of crafting too. making q 201 now
diana_coman: oh, use those as I got everything as high q as I can
diana_coman: yeah, I think he has been crafting pretty much all the time with short breaks for mining grass
chetty: yeah thats why I cancled, so I could store the snail :)
diana_coman: though he is surely on crafting mainly
diana_coman: from what he said earlier, I am quite a bit ahead on building+gathering still
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess ima go try dig up some grass myself after this.
diana_coman: I'll prolly get all the data together and calculate it exactly, though I did not log the quality of thread so it will be approximate anyway
diana_coman: I started digging up some claims now and will not mine the small ones
diana_coman: while chetty is building the ordinary
diana_coman: if I get enough of them, you can build some too and then we have 3 sets of different q to compare
diana_coman: and now I got 59 grass out of ..uhm, 3 tinies?
diana_coman: lolz
mircea_popescu: me you mean ?
diana_coman: yes, if you want to
mircea_popescu: sure. i'll dig up a bunch of what, ordinaries ? smalls ?
diana_coman: smalls prolly, I am out of ordinaries for now
mircea_popescu: aite.
diana_coman: uhm, I got 1 ord
diana_coman: so you can dig one of that too, lol
diana_coman: let me know when you are done with the cft
mircea_popescu: it's literally 2k seconds. has it been that long ?
mircea_popescu: mebbe in 10 minutes or so.
diana_coman: I did not check/keep track, sorry, but no hurry, the more smalls I dig, the more for the exp anyway
diana_coman: so chetty got 595 grass at q55
diana_coman: from the ordinary
diana_coman: I got earlier 148 at q164 or there
diana_coman: mhm
mircea_popescu: ha.
diana_coman: and the bundles were quite the same as I gave here everything as I did mine
chetty: I had a bundle q of 136
diana_coman: yeah, there are a few things that drag it down
diana_coman: such as the st
diana_coman: which is about 80q
diana_coman: yuck
mircea_popescu: meh, so i started some ibs.
diana_coman: lol
diana_coman: I was away for about 8 minutes, true
diana_coman: anyway, I have only about 20 smalls for now, so will dig some more
diana_coman: when do you finish the ibs round?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu? ^
mircea_popescu: heh! horribly chosen 8 minutes. anyway, want this cft ?
diana_coman: yes, of course
mircea_popescu: ok trade me. i won't be able to move till it's done, be maybe 3 hours or so.
diana_coman: oh, ok, will be in town in 2 min
diana_coman: so far I am basically better off building only tiny, lol
diana_coman: on this new run
diana_coman: talking about grinding
mircea_popescu: tinies are great tho
mircea_popescu: they add to the grass engine without using any, see ?
diana_coman: yes, they are great for almost everyone else except me mining them
diana_coman: not that it surprises me
mircea_popescu: you can't possibly make a loss on tinies ?
diana_coman: on money terms no or highly unlikely, but why the hell to mine tinies of grass when in the same time I would clearly make more money mining tinies of eps or wm or whatever rare you name
diana_coman: moss for that matter
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: well, do you find them as frequently ?
mircea_popescu: i quess that's not so much a consideration
diana_coman: quite
diana_coman: and oh, do you mean danielpbarron overtook you in crafting? o.O
diana_coman: but neah, bullshit
diana_coman: he makes 162q
diana_coman: (peeked at his table, lol)
mircea_popescu: overtake me ? no ?
mircea_popescu: wut ?
diana_coman: you said earlier that he was making quality 201?
diana_coman: http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html#t14:14:07
lobbesbot: Title: #Eulora log for Saturday, 2015-08-29 (at logs.minigame.bz)
mircea_popescu: no, i said i was making q 201
mircea_popescu: used to be 203
diana_coman: oh, I got confused then, my bad
diana_coman: he makes 162 and I make (or made) some 155+
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: tbh, thinking about it, it's prolly MY OWN crafting that sunk me
mircea_popescu: because i made lots and lots of hoes
diana_coman: uhm, not sure I follow: why would your own crafting sunk you? I gather you still made those with high q ingredients so you got considerable exp?
diana_coman: or is it as they take a lot of time to make?
mircea_popescu: well cuz i am shittier in mcguyver, they're only like 195
mircea_popescu: then again that doesn't make so much sense either
diana_coman: yeah, can't really see how would that be other than perhaps as in less exp/unit of time than what daniel (or me perhaps though I haven't been crafting much lately) got
diana_coman: I think it's most just that the gap got smaller
mircea_popescu: well the thing is, when grenadine hit those major finds my quality shot up.
mircea_popescu: and since iirc the .17 btc i found on tools is the largest to date,
mircea_popescu: it may account for the move
diana_coman: ugh, now that I can't follow at all; earlier daniel said that his quality went down when he hit the major grass find
diana_coman: oh, that one
diana_coman: if indeed the quality goes down after major finds, I guess that could be indeed, not as much the crafting, as that major loot
mircea_popescu: probably daniel's went down like did mine because we were doing over 100 q
mircea_popescu: whereas grenadine was doing under 100
diana_coman: in approx 1h, I got about 200 grass from tiny claims only, so would need about 5 hrs to get..1k of grass aka 330 cft that would be only slightly more than would go into the 40 small claims found in this 1 hr, lol
diana_coman: anyone wants to buy small grass claims?
diana_coman: ahaha, so now it says "extraordinary stone adze bundle" - wonder what is so extraordinary about it
mircea_popescu wonders if he should sell 10k q345 ibs recipes or keep em
diana_coman: I'll be back for the experiment in about 2.5 hours; by that time all the tinies should be gone too, so that it's not such a mess to get to the small claims
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> diana_coman if you used 1k+ cft in one day << sounds about right :D
diana_coman: I suspect I would use more than that now really, see above, danielpbarron
diana_coman: (at least if I explore for grass)
danielpbarron: diana_coman> anyone wants to buy small grass claims? << yes but here's what you need to do: mine in rows and call me over when you have just finished
danielpbarron: by that time all the tinies should be gone too << do NOT lock smalls for the love of all other players please do not lock smalls!
mircea_popescu: lol
danielpbarron: someone spammed up my grass hill with small sticks everywhere / very annoying
danielpbarron: i am not interested in buying locked smalls; only unlocked freshly gathered smalls
mircea_popescu foresees his foresight is abundantly correct, and the playerbase will be absolutely thrilled to defend its notions of "my grass hill" and so forth with sword in hand
diana_coman: lol danielpbarron I did lock those smalls because I want to make the exp hence I need to make sure they are still there
diana_coman: but I will unlock and use them, of course, lol
diana_coman: and yeah, if you want to buy smalls, I'm happy to sell them on the spot
diana_coman: lol @ my grass hill, indeed
mircea_popescu: mostly because THATS MY GRASS HILL DAMNIT
diana_coman: he he, at least until there is fighting, there can then be ...blackmail? I'll SPAM your grass hill if you don't x and y :)))
danielpbarron: yes i had that thought
diana_coman ponders a "spam" mode for the bot :)))))
danielpbarron: "is someone doing this to mess with me?"
danielpbarron: i think i would be ok with you dedicating your efforts to spam
danielpbarron: because that would mean you are forgoing building exp
diana_coman: ha ha, no, why?
diana_coman: I lock only tinies for instance
diana_coman: still get the exp for the rest
danielpbarron narrows his eyes
mircea_popescu: lol
diana_coman: lolz
mircea_popescu: clearly land ownership gotta get added soonish
diana_coman: there is claim ownership, what's wrong with that?
diana_coman: daniel's problem is mainly an artefact of how his macro works
diana_coman: my bot couldn't care less if there are 100 claims on the *very spot* on which it got a new one for that matter
danielpbarron: it doesn't interfere with my macro
diana_coman: so then what's the problem?
danielpbarron: although i suppose it could
danielpbarron: well it's sorta my macro, in that it dosen't mine smalls and i have to go back through picking them out
diana_coman: so then what, "my grass hill has been defaced" or what? lol
diana_coman: oh, so yes
danielpbarron: i put the key on my sticks so it's still easy to find the right ones
diana_coman: oh, so not *that* bad really
diana_coman: more a matter of *my* hill then
danielpbarron: but it could be bad i guess, if you were to intentionally cover the hill in locked tinies
diana_coman: ha ha, lol
diana_coman: I guess so
mircea_popescu: soo which one of you wants 7k ibs ~200 q ?
chetty: 7k of em eh? that would be a busy miner
danielpbarron: i do
mircea_popescu: i'd have loved to sell them packaged with some thread, but apparently grass is a foregone conclusion.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you selling the bottles back ?
danielpbarron: hadn't planned on it
danielpbarron: 5 million for the lot?
diana_coman: I'm back for the build exp, I have 1 ord if you want to build it, mircea_popescu and 20 small if you want to build them, chetty?
diana_coman: I'd sell back the ltf mircea_popescu if you are still selling those ibs
diana_coman: but of course it will take some time until I get all that cft too
danielpbarron: gernika> mircea_popescu can I snag a eulora account?
danielpbarron: hooray!
phf: ^ successful eulora build on another person's machine
phf: *mac build
diana_coman: wow, that's great, phf
phf: also for the curious the build is done with the recent clang, rather then gcc-4.2
phf: i've used autogen.sh from eulora to regenerate configure etc. with clang relevant modifications, it's not fully portable yet, but i think with few modifications patches can just be integrated back into our cs/eulora code
chetty: very cool phf, ty
diana_coman: chetty, are you still available to mine some small claims?
ben_vulpes: hey phf where does eulora keep its configs on os x?
phf: application support?
phf: or ~/.eulora
ben_vulpes: looks like application support
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ok, youy aroyund ?
mircea_popescu: gernika yeah
diana_coman: yes, will get back to village then
mircea_popescu: lemme make his acct, 5 mins
diana_coman: ok
ben_vulpes: phf: seems to work even
diana_coman: oh and gernika when you get your account maybe you want to build some claims too?
mircea_popescu: gernika http://dpaste.com/1YWXRH5
lobbesbot: Title: dpaste: 1YWXRH5 (at dpaste.com)
gernika: diana_coman perhaps - my screen time is limited atm - recovering from an eye operation
gernika: I'm in!
diana_coman: no worries gernika, it's mainly if you want something to do quickly and get free exp basically
danielpbarron: figure out how to bot and then leave your character doing stuff all day
danielpbarron: it's like the early days of bitcoin mining
danielpbarron: can be done with your laptop
danielpbarron: whatever you make, it will sell
danielpbarron: i don't know why more people aren't doing this
gernika: will do
mircea_popescu: so danielpbarron your offer's not bad, but ideally i would want a deal whereby i get either IO or LTF back for em
mircea_popescu: gernika meet me in town, ima give you some starter items
jurov: hanbot and daniel are going to drain me of coppers
mircea_popescu: diana_coman btw, you got a working tiny miner ?
jurov: Grundin needs resupply
diana_coman: and small, yeah
mircea_popescu: jurov o srsly ?
diana_coman: so what of it?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman it occurs to me the best use for my char is prolly mining. since high q
mircea_popescu: well, you releasing it ?
diana_coman: it explores in patterns (linear or radial so far), it builds whatever it can and leaves the key in the claim after it's done
diana_coman: and it locks whatever it can't build
mircea_popescu: sounds pretty good. how do i define its area and spacings for linear ?
diana_coman: uhm, you get high q for basic, not for rare
diana_coman: but dunno
diana_coman: it's just starting from the point you are in and you give it the number of steps
diana_coman: as in explore linear 10
diana_coman: so it goes 10 steps in that direction and then back and again
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: and it changes tools too ?
diana_coman: yes
diana_coman: it actually tries to train too, but that is such as mess
mircea_popescu: and it goes train ? :D
diana_coman: it tries to...
diana_coman: but what can I say
mircea_popescu: aha. what makes it fail ?
diana_coman: that's the thing why I wouldn't really say it's ready for release
diana_coman: well, if I set it to actually walk to the merchant thing, it can get stuck/fall off a cliff whatever
mircea_popescu: yeah but... for instance right now im not doing anything cuz out of craftables.
mircea_popescu: if i could dig up grass it'd ease the grass issue
diana_coman: how is that out of craft tables?
mircea_popescu: craftables! not craft tables.
diana_coman: yeah, I keep making things easier for others, lol
diana_coman: ah
mircea_popescu looks through his lists
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, you have nothing to craft? want to make me thread? 3k grass at 284 quality for 1k threads at ~200q ?
diana_coman: ahahahaha, love this
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu maffs
mircea_popescu: i gotta save that fucking formula somewhere proeminent
mircea_popescu: 955 danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: and i think i make them 202
danielpbarron: 3k grass for 955 thread?
diana_coman: and tbh about the training thing with the bot: there are some funny instances when it fails and I don't know why (it's rather difficult to test in the first place)
mircea_popescu: ya
diana_coman: + some corner cases, such as if you happen to rank in more than 1 skill at a time I suppose
danielpbarron: ok deal
mircea_popescu: meet me in game!
mircea_popescu: o btw, care to make it 30k ?
danielpbarron: no
mircea_popescu: heh today was just my crafting day
diana_coman: congrats
diana_coman: danielpbarron I have 2 more ordinaries for grass, do you want them?
mircea_popescu: nono sell them to me
mircea_popescu: 50 grass guartanteed!
diana_coman: he pays 10k and tbh atm I'll sell them instead for that value in cft
diana_coman: want them?
mircea_popescu: nah im knee deep in crafting, was just beinf funny
diana_coman: thought so
diana_coman: updated shop with current stock, let me know if there is something specific you want more of (rare items only): http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/foxystore.html
lobbesbot: Title: Foxy's Useful Items (at www.dianacoman.com)
diana_coman: danielpbarron, mircea_popescu and anyone interested ^
mircea_popescu: i mostly want basics tbh
gernika: mircea_popescu how do I find town?
mircea_popescu: up on a hill slightly, where a coupla animated fruitboxes and a few people are.
gernika: found it
mircea_popescu: ok brt
danielpbarron: diana_coman> danielpbarron I have 2 more ordinaries for grass, do you want them? << yes
lobbes takes his first steps on Eulorian soil
danielpbarron: lobbes, you are Geater?

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