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krankendenken



BingoBoingo: "member berries"
BingoBoingo: I am astounded at that wordplay
mircea_popescu: phf back in her younger days chet held open kitchen for the girls of the neighbourhood + some foster kids ; because she could cook, and wasn't an idiot - which was more than could be said about the respective girls' mothers/grandmothers.
mircea_popescu: the list of things modern derp doesn't realise could do because never had opportunity to find out is long indeed.
mircea_popescu: phf "for a thousand dollars i make my own hole". who cares what exists in english ? MAKE it. Pizdanutsya = cuntilized or w/e.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, if one googles for argentina's writer's union, the only result is BOXING writers union. that's it.
mircea_popescu: they got borges, and that's good enough. what if he's president for life of an item that doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: "President of the Argentine Society of Writers and as Professor of English and American Literature at the Argentine Association of English Culture"
mircea_popescu: now find these things.
mircea_popescu: the entire western canon, 1966-2016, is a fabrication. the entire fucking thing. not "global warming" or "smoking kills" or "rape on campuses" or "barack obama, scholar" or whatnot other pinpoint nonsensical "movements". not even "environmentalism" or "feminism" or you know, "war on" this or that.
mircea_popescu: no. the ENTIRE FUCKING THING. all of it.
mircea_popescu: condolezza rice was literate, carly fiorina was an exemplary woman, blablabla in the exact same sense elliot rodgers was a supreme gentleman "descended of aristocracy".
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/alibaba-clamps-down-on-internal-theft/ << Qntra - Alibaba Clamps Down On Internal Theft
shinohai: And so that is the end of Alibaba and the 40 thieves.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: off by factor of ten
shinohai: *Alibaba and the 4 moon-thieves
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: who the fuck wants cake bad enough to steal it
mircea_popescu shudders at the hamplanet problem china is prolly hatching
BingoBoingo: lol, anyways apparently southpark season 20 started this week. I am still lolling at their "member berries" wordplay
shinohai: !~later tell mod6 You might appreciate: https://twitter.com/ECorpCEO/status/776519710259019777
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: shinohai i can't help but notice the fascination with this mysterios ceo figure in the usg.pinoy dept.
shinohai: Pop culture poisoning
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's supposed to be "funny" ; the only problem being that cancerous fags can't possibly be funny. not no matter how hard they try ; not just because they try too hard.
BingoBoingo: But funny things can happen to them. Like when the token trophy Muslim Hillary advisor got cucked by her man's sexts to all the twitter pr0n spammers.
BingoBoingo: brb
mircea_popescu: tru.
mod6: morning Gentlemen.
mod6: <+shinohai> !~later tell mod6 You might appreciate: https://twitter.com/ECorpCEO/status/776519710259019777 << lol! did you see the latest one?
mod6: I watched it lastnight, was lmao.
shinohai: I haven't watched it yet :/
shinohai: saw the clips
mod6: ah, werd.
mod6: hahah, i wont spoil the choice quotes for anyone.
shinohai: its saved on dvr tho
shinohai: so when i get time to watch
thestringpuller: mod6 is the real life mr. robot
shinohai: something like that. he is involved with fsociety surely
mod6: lol, except i hate python
shinohai: it's a pain in the ass
mircea_popescu: maybe that's just what you want us to think.
mod6: thestringpuller: saw your blog post btw yesterday. yeeaaaaaaaah.
shinohai curses eulora for consuming his entire day yesterday
mod6: it's great isn't it?
shinohai: yup
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: shinohai you know once you get half decent at the metagame you don't have to baby it. i spend about 10-20 minutes a day changing bot diapers is all.
mircea_popescu: but of course to get there gotta put some study in to climb teh curve.
mircea_popescu looks
shinohai: as I said, the game plays you
mircea_popescu: 443 + 44 flotsam, 120+6 spicy moss ; 112 + 142 boulders, bout a hundred wpl, cr, some dcs, wwb etc. since ~this time yest.
shinohai: danielpbarron would be proud of me going all the way back and dragging table with loot in penance
mircea_popescu: which incidentally... it really makes me chuckle at the predicament of "AAA" studios. so first, they make a broken game (broken here defined as, not-neutral state-evolution-graph) ; because their game is broken, they have to forbid bots - not just in form, but in practice. then if they don't manage to forbid them too efficiently they die everquest/diablo 3 style, inflation. but if they do manage to forbid them, they die like
mircea_popescu: wow / eve / etc : people go through the early game, master it, then can't move on to the logical next phase so they just quit. so now AAA studio is forced to salvage broken game that broke their playerbase through... oh shit, incentives. ie, inflation, ie, "we'll give you free level 60 characters". because guess what, the inflation was actually better than death, and their success at doing what they wanted to do (prevent bots
mircea_popescu: !), inasmuch as they wanted to something stupid, turns out to be contrary to what they... ~actually~ wanted to do.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow this inept cycle of self-effacement does NOT enlighten their stupid heads that yo! what we thought was the problem couldn't have possibly been the problem, seeing how the better we fix it, the worse things get! and then we have to circumvolutedly revert the very fix!
mircea_popescu: not to mention that what we thought is the goal can't possibly be the goal! so how about we stop with the shit and do things right.
mircea_popescu: but oh, no, none of that. thousands of derps all "know", in the sense of being wrong in the same way ; and borges is President of the Argentine Society of Writers.
diana_coman: shinohai> danielpbarron would be proud of me going all the way back and dragging table with loot in penance <- wait, did you do it *manually*?
shinohai: yeah because i forgot the proper way the first time :/
mircea_popescu: lmao
diana_coman: loool, well deserved penance indeed then
diana_coman: :p
mircea_popescu: btw shinohai you wanna dig up a buncha ords for me ? or did you level building already ?
shinohai: i go *all the way back* and thankfully loot is still floating in the air
shinohai: yeah mircea_popescu when i get client fired up we'll chat
mircea_popescu: kk
mircea_popescu: shinohai also, you got that bridge bot going right ? iirc that was a mn ecu for you ?
shinohai: not yet, it is too crude to run
shinohai: :(
shinohai: i have been so focused on getting controls to behave lol
mircea_popescu: alrighty.
asciilifeform: in other lelz, http://www.theonion.com/article/disillusioned-hacker-starting-to-feel-like-he-has--53953
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: good thing they're not using paper ballots.
asciilifeform: yeah they used to have to pay folks to get on buses and stuff the boxez
asciilifeform: whereas now - not.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but in soviet russia.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/JNekz << in yet other lulz.
asciilifeform: 'The long-planned participatory (shall we say) sculpture by the Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan — a fully functional, solid 18-karat-gold copy of a Kohler toilet, an over-the-top apotheosis of wealth — was installed in the humble restroom on the fifth-floor ramp of the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum late last week and will be open for business to anyone with the urge on Friday...'
asciilifeform: coming next, surely, public atomic dirigible rides!1111
trinque: the piece is called "America"
trinque lols
asciilifeform: http://www.mignews.info/dlazhnik-razrushi-ipotekiranata-si-kashta-i-ya-stovari-pred-bankata << moar lelz. fella owed mortgage on house, but not land. foreclosed, so returned house to bank. without land. using excavator.
asciilifeform: (bulgaria, if it isn't obvious)
mircea_popescu: i dunno man... at ~1k usd / cc... a toilet's pretty bulky.
asciilifeform: eh betcha it's gilged.
mircea_popescu: says solid 18k
asciilifeform: says buncha things.
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, gold is very dense. a coffee mug full of gold is easily 2x the yearly income of the mug's owner
ben_vulpes: in other strange, my trb node is currently sitting on 9756 VIRT, and has an entire core completely pegged.
mircea_popescu: mb ?!
ben_vulpes: aha
asciilifeform: we all have materials table on the wall, just as mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: not all, alfie.
peterl: some of us have it in our head instead of on wall
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can you looksee what's allocated ?
ben_vulpes: lessee here
mircea_popescu: and in other "i'm just dumping links for bots to archive" news, http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-09-16.log.html#t17:44:03
ben_vulpes: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/t88xc/?raw=true << liek dis?
peterl: maybe someday I write script to dig through logs and archive shit
mircea_popescu: 00007fd9b506c000 5972292K rwx-- [ anon ] << what's in there ?
mircea_popescu: the rest is ~more or less normal.
ben_vulpes: how do i look inside that?
ben_vulpes: this is a dark and unfamiliar corner of linux to me
mircea_popescu: well, gdb should let you see it. the prefix there is the address
mircea_popescu: maybe look in /prof
mircea_popescu: /proc*
ben_vulpes: kk
mircea_popescu: generally you should be able to open /proc/pid/mem as a normal unix file.
ben_vulpes back in 5, disembarking train
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al: what happened to actually instrumenting with valgrind etc, as i described in agonizing detail on the ml last year ? the linux footprint thing is not very useful.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd have to restart the process to get data out of valgrind, right?
asciilifeform: yes
asciilifeform: there was another instrumenter that compiled in, and worked in real time, see june/july '15 ml
mircea_popescu: ^
ben_vulpes: well compiled in, i still hafta restart the process
asciilifeform: no
ben_vulpes: curious to see what's in there while it's live.
asciilifeform: that was whole point !
ben_vulpes: o.O
asciilifeform: that you don't have to
ben_vulpes: what means "compiled in" then?!
ben_vulpes: nevermind.
ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << not this?
asciilifeform: nope.
trinque: lol
trinque: ben_vulpes: go back in time and compile in the instrumenter before this happened!
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000095.html
ben_vulpes: ah
ben_vulpes: yaok i'll accept that the engine room needs a new dial.
mircea_popescu: in the sad story of exactly this, the first time i ran new eulora client, it crashed. i've bee nrunning it in gdb ever since, has not crashed since. 5 weeks!
mircea_popescu: i'll give up and run it plain one day, at which point...
ben_vulpes: memory use aside, is the 100% cpu use symptomatic of blackholing, asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: no, it is symptomatic of block verifying
asciilifeform: if it's grinding a block, it'll peg at 100.
asciilifeform: (and though the algo is infinitely parallelizable, it has 0 parallelism as implemented by the idiot)
ben_vulpes: right, k. and when it's verifying a block, does it typically go entirely unresponsive to rpc commands?
asciilifeform: absolutely.
ben_vulpes: mhhhhm.
ben_vulpes: this *should* be a transient affair though wtf
asciilifeform: not if you're 7 yrs out of sync
asciilifeform: you gotta understand the sheer imbecility of the thing
ben_vulpes: ya well that is categorically not the case for this node.
asciilifeform: it is barely fathomable.
ben_vulpes: until ~last night the thing was tracking the chain tip like a bloodhound.
asciilifeform: what's the log look like ?
ben_vulpes: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/a4tis/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: oh that's lulzeriffic, the processblock log lines don't get timestamped?
ben_vulpes: log is 72619592 lines long, last accepted block was at 72529974
ben_vulpes off, will resume later
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the native logging of prb are fascinatingly bad.
mircea_popescu: kinda why ~nobody actually uses it as is
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-tradebot-spec/ << Trilema - Eulora tradebot spec
phf: `card.freenode.net * a111 "Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable"` well then...
mircea_popescu: phf gotta ghost it
mircea_popescu: and in other news, hot damn it's great watching girls work out.
phf: +1
mircea_popescu: best enjoyed with a sammich, after you're done watching girls do dishes.
mod6: nice.
mircea_popescu: i think it shall be called a watcharium from now on. wtf "harem" bs.
mircea_popescu: panopticunt.
asciilifeform: i thought it was a do-arium, while owner's cock works
asciilifeform: and watcharium when he's old
mircea_popescu: well alf... i guess i'm old.
asciilifeform: ain't nothing wrong with being old, other than the obvious minuses
mircea_popescu: "eh... we fucked yesterday."
mod6: you can't fuck 100% of the time. there's some division there. like 70% watch, 30% fuck.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yes, but that's per girl ;/
mod6: :D
mod6: hey, some division, some multipication.
mircea_popescu: word.
phf: right, but apparently normally this comes in as a err_nicknameinuse message, now it's err_unavailableresources
phf: there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio
phf: by the end of this exercise we're going to all have the total sum of all the hacks that are in eggdrop, indepedently rediscovered
trinque sighs
mircea_popescu: windows style error handling is, "whatever error we recieve reboot"
trinque: I do that, sadly.
trinque: but doesn't help if there are myriad cases one must use ghost
trinque: could I suppose just aggressively ghost each time
mircea_popescu: in other news, cockroaches are more robust than women ; especially in radiation contaminated areals.
mircea_popescu: so fuck cockroaches.
phf: usg science suggests solution, make cockroach sized penises
mircea_popescu: "how do you fuck a chicken ?" "wrap it in duct tape" "and how do you fuck a cockroach ?" "wrap it in duct tape and fuck it with usg scientific penis."
mod6: heheh
phf: -NickServ- a111 is not online.
phf: //nick a111
phf: *** Nickname a111 is temporarily unavailable, trying a111`
phf: (i'm using this "fuck you phf, love freenode" to upgrade the btcbase instance, so site is down for half hour or so)
asciilifeform: in other 'news', heathen 'rng design' folk write what aaaaaalmost looked like good intro to subj, https://forum.stanford.edu/events/2016/slides/iot/Ben.pdf , until the mindfuck 'Want to keep generating entropy bits without needing to keep powering the HWRNG Use HWRNG to seed a PRNG (AES counter mode)...'
pete_dushenski: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#629 << 'what are the odds that this human's left tit is a hairy enough to shade the sahara?'
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [23:12:10] * mircea_popescu was reading pete d, ended up on "Knowing that on average humans have one testicle and one ovary, what are the odds that this human's left ovary is a testicle ?"
phf: site's up, bot's up, a111 nick is still unobtainable
mircea_popescu: ACTION just found out that phillips and torx heads respectively aren't mere "let's arbitrarily change standards to try and extract spurious rents via alleged intellectual property" ; but in fact have proper reasons to exist. a) phillips head is self-centering ; which is to say driver does not slip out of screw being driven. this was major advantage in early automotive work. torx does not cam out ; which was major advantage in
pete_dushenski: 'I was dead-set on finding a house with a garbage disposal, or "garburator" as our sorry ("Sorry!") neighbors to the North call them,' << l0l! love the souble dorry. also, i've never lived in a house or condo with a garburator and may never.
mircea_popescu: is "garburator" supposed to be "garbage carburator" ? because that may be the lamest corporate attempt at humour to date.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: folk name
mircea_popescu: that doesn't make it right.
pete_dushenski: 'but eventually relented and traded the garburator for a hood over the stove,' << current place... doesn't have range hood. smoky ? smelly ? open the windows and patio doors and get a cross-breeze going
asciilifeform: and they're a household thing, made by 1,001 chinese whatevers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we definitely had thread re: 'torx'
mircea_popescu: !~search torx
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: There were no matching configuration variables.
mircea_popescu: !#search torx
mircea_popescu: !#s torx
mircea_popescu: ah it's not voiced hm.
mircea_popescu: !!up a112
deedbot: a112 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !#s torx
a112: 13 results for "torx", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=torx
asciilifeform: well yes but he's off
phf: in other news apparently the command is "nickserv release"
mircea_popescu: release only works half the time.
mircea_popescu: also site is timing out
phf: yeah, i decided to touch the server and now everything's broken
asciilifeform: anyway the description given is off, phillips screw was used precisely because it slips when torqued up. 'torx' and similar - do not. they were introduced when dynamometer (torque wrench) became standard at conveyor.
asciilifeform: and the 'poor man's dynamometer' of phillips screw - no longer essential
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: phillips doesn't slip ; torx doesn't cam out
phf: in case anyone thinks that commercial lisp vendors are any good, i'm getting completely random failed to allocate errors on lispworks
mircea_popescu: we didn't really think so, no.
asciilifeform: phf: you went straight there from cmucl ?
asciilifeform: and incidentally if it's the crippleware version it will fail to allocate when you reach the cripplement limit
phf: nah, professional, i have a license from elsewhere, that i'm .. evaluating
mircea_popescu: how much is it ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i always thought 'garburator' was more of a garbage-purolator : a machine for mailing garbage as far away as possible
phf: a professional single os/cpu version is $1300
mircea_popescu: oh, so you mean enough to pay for a dedicated server running lamp for a whole year ?
phf: there was this idea in the naggum emails that all the problems go away once you stop being cheap and pay for a real lisp. maybe that was the case in 2001 when he wrote it, but in practice it turns out to not be so
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it costs about two or three days of the programmer.
mircea_popescu: i do not believe it was the case 15 years ago either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: based on what ? magic 8ball ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun see anyone here (other than me, but w/e) ever spend time debugging apache etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform based on exactly this type of interaction with exactly this type of fellow, back then.
pete_dushenski: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#334 << looks like contravex uses the same footnote plugin as trilema, so you should be good to go
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [17:37:23] <ben_vulpes> mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski: recommendations for wp footnote plugin? footnotes-in-footnotes would be a grand feature if any can do that and it's not a mp-wp-footnotes custom job
asciilifeform tried allegro and lispworks in '09, was not esp. happy.
mircea_popescu: 09 is not 01.
asciilifeform: phf: is there a reason you're allergic to sbcl and will try even payware before it ?
phf: yes, it's in logs
asciilifeform: the interpreter ?
asciilifeform: it is only needed for debug... why not deploy on a lisp that actually WORKS?
pete_dushenski: 'EVERYTHING MUST GO IN THE DISHWASHER AND THAT MUST BE FINE.' << chez moi i throw everything in the dishwasher, which i then run when full and empty thereafter, while the girl does this 'wash by hand as you go and air dry on the rack' thing for reasons i don't fully comprehend.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc you deployed the only thing known on python which worked ; and serve via apache ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worse
asciilifeform: http server thing in python, with apache for statics (pictures etc)
mircea_popescu: is what i said neh ?
asciilifeform: yes but mircea_popescu's picture was charitable.
phf: asciilifeform: well, fwiw i used sbcl for years and was running in increasingly larger number of problems. just small annoyances. when i tried interacting with sbcl "community" it turned out to be the usual suspects, google employees, gender pronounced. i have the same antipathy to sbcl as you to llvm
trinque: sbcl has been taken over from the original guy
asciilifeform: phf: i can easily believe this. fwiw my copy is ancient.
asciilifeform: perhaps i ought to nail it to a board and post.
mircea_popescu: not to necessarily discourage the eager from using lisp or anything else. by all means. but certainly to discourage an unrealistic view of performance etc.
phf: sbcl last time i checked was entirely developed by google
trinque: one of them at least is a complete idiot who told me in #sbcl that gpg signing was pointless because "somebody could just pay me to sign something malicious"
asciilifeform: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: trinque please with name.
asciilifeform: ^
trinque looks
mircea_popescu: this is how they think, you know ? and while not conscious, because celenterates, nevertheless effectual. because a large collection of betas will naturally fall on solutions to the problems of betas.
mircea_popescu: much like bacteria manage.
phf: anyway, first version of btcbase was written in python, and ran for a year as a proxy to znc with a synchronizer to kako. basically exactly what Framedragger has right now
phf: i'm pretty sure i've not had to touch it once
mircea_popescu: i only have to go in there when someone "upgrades" something.
mircea_popescu: fucking idiot kids.
asciilifeform: phf: ever try ccl ?
phf: but the rewrite happened for two reasons, one is that i wanted to do interesting analysis on entire corpus (which is something python will strugle with) and that tmsr canon called for technology ownership. cmucl seems like a reasonable stack to own, considering that it's abandonware. fwiw it benchmarks faster than either sbcl (by fraction) or lispworks (by a huge margin, wtf now) on doing bit twiddling like the search that we do
mircea_popescu: well yeah, but you gotta own it.
asciilifeform: phf: http://ccl.clozure.com
mircea_popescu: you know, 5yo me came home one day, asked mom if "fried cow is good to eat".
mircea_popescu: because 5yo me had observed some cows, and figured... what the hell!
phf: :>
phf: i've used cmucl in the past, like 10 years ago, and still have most of my lisp code for it/in it. than i switched to ccl and deployed few things commercially with it. the only lisp i've never explicitly worked with except toying around is sbcl
trinque: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/k21rs/?raw=true << guy's very active >> https://sourceforge.net/u/stassats/profile/
mircea_popescu: maybe somebody's paying him!
trinque: nameless bastards, afraid of signing their works.
mircea_popescu: BUT THE SIXTH CASTLE STAYED UP!
trinque: ahaha
phf: ffs
phf: that's it, i'm retiring. to elba
mircea_popescu: !~google baterii elba
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: ELBA , de la sursa bateriilor pentru lanterne în comunism la corpuri ...: <http://www.mediafax.ro/social/elba-de-la-sursa-bateriilor-pentru-lanterne-in-comunism-la-corpuri-de-iluminat-si-faruri-pentru-masini-fabrica-salvata-de-venirea-renault-la-dacia-galerie-foto-10706053>; Baterii elba - Cumpara cu incredere de pe Okazii.ro.: <https://www.okazii.ro/cautare/baterii%2Belba.html>; Amintiri din Epoca de (1 more message)
phf: from now on i'm working on mp-wp, full time, a shell of a man. you can point newcomers at an old shambling figure, "that's phf. he's tending our flower bed"
mircea_popescu: this cult is turning into a cocoa of a monastery.
trinque: phf: offer stands for me to be your court jew of sbcl-ing
mircea_popescu: anyway, more productively : an actually working lisp environment isn't a bad idea ; but premature today imo.
mircea_popescu: the way to owning technologies is ; by picking technologies to own that are small enough on the way there. much like the way to eat a whale is by eating earthworms while frogsized.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is sorta why i came upon the notion of resurrecting 'tinyscheme'
asciilifeform: but it is quite certainly a frog
mircea_popescu: this method seems wasteful ; from experience it actually delivers. the more direct, intuitive approach not only always fails, but predictably so, which is why it's such a great ally of statu quo.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
asciilifeform: the thing is, it's a frog, but a standardized frog.
asciilifeform: as in, there is a very pedantic test suite.
phf: i probably wrote most code for tbr/shiva, and it was an exercise in rewriting common lisp from scratch
asciilifeform: yes i recall this.
asciilifeform: phf did some very fine work with it.
asciilifeform: and any work with scheme will inevitably have the flavour of 'recreating common lisp from scratch.'
mircea_popescu: "most lisps today are buggy half working implementations" or how did the quote go.
asciilifeform: 'most large programs'
mircea_popescu: not that part.
mircea_popescu: ok, this is almost as fun to watch as girls doing butt lifts.
mircea_popescu: !~google irc bot in php
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: WildPHP: A PHP IRC Bot: <https://wildphp.com/>; Simple PHP IRC Bot Script - A PHP IRC Bot - WildPHP: <https://wildphp.com/simple-irc-bot>; Top Tutorials - A PHP IRC Bot - WildPHP: <https://wildphp.com/tutorials>
asciilifeform: '2016-08-31 19:52:29 Xof the copy of my key that was on sourceforge had an error in it ever since it was uploaded'
asciilifeform: '2016-08-31 19:52:31 stassats frankly, i don't believe in the web of trust, you can only know who uploaded
asciilifeform: 2016-08-31 19:52:36 stassats not their intentions'
asciilifeform: wat.
trinque: best lisp compiler is in the hands of imbeciles, is wat.
asciilifeform: trinque: we have the pill. pick a time, t. and all sbcl work after t, is dead to us...
asciilifeform: the trb method.
trinque: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sbcl-devel/7A7TmBne6xw/fxxgM2xIdEMJ
trinque: ^ announcement of Newman's resignation from the project
phf: !#s dog
a111: 990 results for "dog", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dog
phf: <**> Out of memory: Failed to allocate object of size 40000008 [10/10]
mircea_popescu: !#s as
a111: 37308 results for "as", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=as
mircea_popescu: pretty snappy.
phf: right, but the url above timeouts
mircea_popescu: and in other tooling news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/1f3675ccd63cc4eedc95167f1685315a/tumblr_o4kjg3ie4S1ui7jcmo1_400.gif
phf: Error: Segmentation violation(11) [code 0] at 42405E119C {outside Lisp heap}
phf: etc.
phf: fuck it, i'm going to port it to sbcl
mircea_popescu: it requires porting ?
phf: well, cmucl version was very cmucl specific, when i ported it to lispworks i made it portable, but i'm sure there are some small things left
mircea_popescu: well, gl with sbcl.
mircea_popescu: http://67.media.tumblr.com/2328e4c72bbec3ad89158518ae1c8821/tumblr_nv7u2ccKU11tlnr6jo1_400.gif << summer dresses rule.
shinohai was just enjoying such a view
mircea_popescu: and in counterpoint news, http://hajiwonposts.tumblr.com/post/146939320580
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: i think we had this thread
mircea_popescu: some of the weirdest shit there. including somebody who thought using a common glass salad bowl as a receiver is a good idea, somehow ; lotta casual "your cunt's bare, why not be naked" stuff, and etc
asciilifeform: eh wait, sc4m! some of these chix dun look pregnant at all
asciilifeform: what even is that object they're 'birthing'
mircea_popescu: ikr ?
asciilifeform: it looks quite similar in various pics
mircea_popescu: a... puppy ?
asciilifeform: ... raw chicken ?
ben_vulpes: ...placenta?
mircea_popescu: anyway. hard to tell from a pic, there's considerable variance in abdominal swelling.
asciilifeform: e.g., http://hajiwonposts.tumblr.com/post/148141851075/good?is_related_post=1
mircea_popescu: and in other things that could beenfit from a blockchain trustless digital autonomous crypto anarcho syndicalist commune : https://www.emlalock.com/
mircea_popescu: hopefully someone makes a coin for that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re earlier, gotta wonder re the existence of... abortion pr0n
asciilifeform: ( if 1, why not the other )
mircea_popescu: i imagine it must.
mircea_popescu: gore is a thing ; since before rotten.com
asciilifeform: and didn't mircea_popescu tells us about some chick who had one every other month or the like
mircea_popescu: that was before digicams.
asciilifeform: and not just the 'gore', but complete kit, with chix 'butterflying' themselves while they spray it out, etc
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?1
mircea_popescu: self-administered abortions ?
asciilifeform: not necessarily
asciilifeform: but 'medical fetish' is a not wholly unknown thing
asciilifeform: and theoretically cunt engine can work just as well on 'out' stroke as 'in', eh?
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?!
asciilifeform: well, theoretically, 'reverse penetration'
mircea_popescu: i dun follow ?
asciilifeform: they're being fucked, from reverse end
mircea_popescu: through 30m of intestine ?
asciilifeform: neh, the other tract
thestringpuller: lololol Spells of Genesis is so ADHD
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuRf6r0LuL8 << speaking of powerful drones, check out this octocopter used for 'dronesurfing'
pete_dushenski: model 'Freefly ALTA 8'
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the retiarius' weapons may well make a comeback. drone should be able to drop weighted net on, say, schoolgirl, neh ?
pete_dushenski: yup. retariopter
pete_dushenski: http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-nsa-has-files-on-a-country-that-doesnt-exist << how dare the nsa have a file on a nonexistent country that isn't tmsr!
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: because tmsr exists ?
pete_dushenski: must be that eh.
pete_dushenski: https://medium.com/personal-growth/10-ways-to-adapt-to-prison-7e1956904409#.adpucwiwj << speaking of new realities, what kind of fuckin soi-dissant 'guide to prison' doesn't include 'stab first, ask questions later' ?
pete_dushenski: 'Don’t gamble or use drugs' ? how goddam lame is that.
mod6: tmsr even has a cia factbook
pete_dushenski: only if mp's a cia mole.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski most people who go to "prison" end up in low and mid security joints.
mircea_popescu: not to mention people who don't ain't reading fucking medium.
pete_dushenski: ~no one who's going anywhere, even prison, reads medium
pete_dushenski: tweets get more views
mircea_popescu: anyway. "don't gamble" is solid advice. gamble works in prison exactly like outside - as taxation. unless you're running the joint, gambling is just another way of looking for a boyfriend.
thestringpuller: "I put on for my country." - Young Stalin
mircea_popescu: in practical terms, if you'll be going to prison for limp dick shit, your best move is to have bitcoin and a wot. the personnel is poorly paid, greatly infiltrated by gold diggers who correctly intuit this is their easiest way to endear themselves to the sort of people who can touch real money, however briefly, and generally very supportive. for as long as you got leverage outside you'll be fine.
mircea_popescu: just as long as you make sure that a) usg can't get at your wealth and b) you left a network behind you're liable to find the prison term more pleasant than life at home./
mircea_popescu: (they also know this ; which is why all the derpy "murder for hire" and assorted nonsense keeps trying to be tacked on)
mircea_popescu: and in other "prison for women" news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/8821c5e865e9249a8dc810fae9938131/tumblr_o8cxlv1tVj1qc2yxpo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: oh incredibly enough, i might have found alf's altatron. http://torturepain.tumblr.com/post/142820473702/queensnake
BingoBoingo: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=member+berries&defid=10244291 << Really, mo one realizes "member berries" is testicles?
asciilifeform: https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/04/method-so-acceptable-dea-cant-even-tell-you-its-na << gut-busting
mircea_popescu: speaking of gutbusting. http://65.media.tumblr.com/65f8b6c2bf6f967f5b2bbb5a47a0a962/tumblr_nzjhscfFlU1u2j8oyo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: ^ perhaps ~that~ is the subj of link !!
mircea_popescu: "2011 FBI report finds “broadening U.S. military presence” responsible for rise in terror attacks" << hurr. "today we discovered that if we go attack some people, they'll attack us right back."
asciilifeform: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/dea-vaughn-index-10335/#file-16280 << lel, tighter lips than nsa on typical day
asciilifeform: (the latter usually shits out pages-denied count)
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda amused at the notion that anyone much gives a shit either way.
asciilifeform: well, on a list of 'the four seeekrit evidences', stoolies, nsatronics , parallel construction, and ????. So what's ???? ... telepathy? magic 8ball?
asciilifeform: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#441 << and what's this
asciilifeform: et tu scribabrute?!
asciilifeform: what, i mean, is an altatron.
asciilifeform: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#437 << sounds like a recipe for coke machine, not favours from jailer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#413 <
mircea_popescu: in other news, pop quiz is unanymous : jordan mactaggart was pretty hot.
adlai: from my experience in two situations not dissimilar from low-security gaol, mircea_popescu is correct about the staff
adlai: (idf (including lots of secondhand familiarity with both sides of its military prison system) and 'hospital')
adlai: asciilifeform: my primary gripe with sbcl is that if you do enough network operations in parallel, you hit some race condition, and must restart lisp to continue webbing.
adlai is still using sbcl, this only happens every few months of scalping so it's not too hairy a shirt
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5F8DE075CDBAA6097DE1BF6B4BA32A47399B1098244E6E3C83374BA3024DF981 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 113824259307333733622621589643049751142859902349974419208869344787806302253267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.9.13 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.9.13 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.9.13@mkj.lt>; '
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5F8DE075CDBAA6097DE1BF6B4BA32A47399B1098244E6E3C83374BA3024DF981 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 113824259307333733622621589643049751142859902349974419208869344787806302253267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.9.13 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.9.13 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.9.13@mkj.lt>; '
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AB1CC7C0F992FB8527D4B489D4202EB78672F9E0A7F2908A5A3611A00611CDE6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 113824259307333733622621589643049751142859902349974419208869344787806302253267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.229 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.229 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.11.229@mkj.l
thestringpuller: lol my mom is watching netflix on the wifi
thestringpuller: its funny how the opiate of the masses never really changes. it just finds more concentrated forms. :\ depressing.
thestringpuller goes back to reading comic books
adlai: dude wtf, xey're called "grafic novels" now
thestringpuller: >:( I get serial comics. I'm subscribed to 30 something titles per month atm.
adlai: serialization is how most (?) novels were published for ~ever. strikes me as a fairer economic arrangement than premium+royalties but i'm probably just a clueless outsider
thestringpuller: this graphic novel mania the weee-uh-boos set in motion is ridiculous.
thestringpuller: cuz really a monthly series should be like an episode of tv
adlai grew up on tintin, probably the reason for his strong inoculation against political correctedness
adlai: the best thing about tintin is that nobody is around to dilute the syrup (and no, the movies don't count)
thestringpuller: adlai: but royalties are where all the sweet money is in comics! if a comic, does really well, the license holders get a cut of pretty much everything spawned from the franchise.
adlai: call me when the kids are playing Spiderman Go
thestringpuller: LOL. 4 srs tho. spider-man is a pretty good example. why do you think sony sunk money into a 2nd spiderman trilogy (which became a disaster)? they wanted to keep the movie rights.
mircea_popescu: adlai : tell you what, put whatever does the equivalent of php up, hit it with 10loads/second for half hour and see how hairy a shirt it is.
adlai: mircea_popescu: sbcl dies on too many (for all i know, just two, in the precisely bad timing) ~outgoing~ queries
mircea_popescu: does talk-to-db count as outgoing ?
adlai: maybe? i get this from too many talk-to-exchange (and once from too many talk-to-freenode, with handrolled irc code that didn't rate limit...)
adlai: i never got this when dealing with mpex, but mpex moves slowly enough that parallel queries weren't a concern
adlai: a db on another box would probably count, unless "what color are your packets"?
ben_vulpes: hours later, bitcoind still pegged
ben_vulpes: 12.82 day uptime. let's try again!
ben_vulpes: heh i wonder if the thing will even listen to shutdown commands.
mircea_popescu: it mostly does, albeit very slowly
ben_vulpes: i'm in no rush, happy to run the hourglass out.
mircea_popescu: large part of it is berkley db being incredibly slow to put itself in a sane state.
ben_vulpes: does this hold when it's not even listening to rpc commands?
mircea_popescu: bdb holds the blockchain and the wallet ; rpc doesn't much enter into it
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=fShutdown
asciilifeform: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#15 << and holy fuck adlai what sbcl were you using, and for what.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-17: [00:40:56] <adlai> mircea_popescu: sbcl dies on too many (for all i know, just two, in the precisely bad timing) ~outgoing~ queries
asciilifeform: i had it drive 20kg of stainless steel turning on a dime, for hours on end, real-time, and experienced no such nonsense.
asciilifeform: and it was plugged into a bank of tcp to serial (yes) converters, even.
asciilifeform: adlai: did you ffi out something other than merely the socket handling ?
asciilifeform: or was this post-poettering sbcl
asciilifeform: or wat.
adlai: asciilifeform: i suspect the culprit is the one CL lib of such quality that it has a plus in its name
adlai: either that, or merely the socket handling.
asciilifeform: unless folks ~publish~ the magical bug-inducers, i am inclined to agree with the old iddish proverb
asciilifeform: about the dancer.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you read the code, you will notice that trb is, at most times of 'very very busy bee', quite unready to react to rpc command because one of the global locks is engaged.
asciilifeform: fwiw i pretty much always kill -9 it.
asciilifeform: if the node dies, i can bake another.
adlai: (format () "~{~A~^ ~}" (mapcar 'funcall '(lisp-implementation-type lisp-implementation-version machine-type))) => "SBCL 1.2.4.debian X86-64"
asciilifeform: it takes, what, all of 10 or so hrs, pumping via a direct link
adlai: first happened ~2 yrs ago, last happened ~2 weeks ago.
asciilifeform: adlai: i dun think i've ever used anything above 1
adlai: magical bug inducer = scalpl running against the usual suspects of shitcoinistan
asciilifeform: sounds like it's just throwing packets
asciilifeform: not even, as in phf's case, calling exotic gpg-via-ffi crapola
adlai: well, it is always throwing ssl packets, so it could also be that (this is the aforementioned plus-sized library)
asciilifeform: ewww does your thing call out to openssl?!
adlai: cl+ssl is ffi to openssl
asciilifeform: ~hlrph~
asciilifeform: vomitronic.
adlai: you have to use ssl with all exchanges (except for one, guess which)
adlai misses the days of scalping without competition
asciilifeform: anyway i won't be debugging folks' seeeekrit codez over whispers and winks.
asciilifeform: whether scalpl or mpb.
adlai: a) nobody asked you to debug b) it's not seeeekrit, i "backup" on github
asciilifeform: link?
adlai: https://github.com/adlai/scalpl
adlai: (the most recent bits aren't pushed yet, but theyr'e not relevant to this bug)
adlai: note that this code is written with no brains other than my own in mind
adlai: it's almost "job security"; lets me publish my cake while preventing anybody else from eating it. whether i can eat it too (ie, debug this a decade after writing it) remains to be seen.
asciilifeform: well from adlai's description in earlier thread, it sounds as if 'the time' had already come
asciilifeform: when the thing barfs randomly, and underperforms in unpredictable ways.
adlai: time for... 'ownership' of sbcl?
adlai: or at least, freezing an old version
adlai thinks out loud: 'crystallising' might be a better metaphor than 'freezing', since the purpose isn't only to reduce code temperature, but also to remove impurities as they emerge
adlai: fwiw, whenever i fantasized about owning a lisp compiler, the imagined object went one step further than sbcl, and didn't depend on a C compiler for the 'kernel', but rather shat ELF objects (or whatever other format) from lisp
adlai: (SBCL, contrary to popular mythos, is not 'self hosting')
asciilifeform: adlai: i think everybody knows this
asciilifeform: so i have nfi what mythos yer thinking of
asciilifeform: it demands a gcc for pass1
asciilifeform: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#61 << conspicuously absent are whatever mechanisms used for moving coin between the arenas
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-17: [02:09:58] <adlai> https://github.com/adlai/scalpl
asciilifeform: or is this not a thing yet
asciilifeform: how the hell does it arbitrage ?
adlai: everybody who's paid attention. cue internal-mp: "bipeds who don't pay attention are Not People"
adlai: how the hell would you arbitrage the asset formerly known as S.MPOE, other than across time?
adlai: the fact that usd (and other assorted shitcoins) are traded across multiple exchanges is merely an additional profit vector for future implementation... lone wolf projects lope one leap at a time
adlai: (in case it's unclear, "time-arbitrage" is not a risk-free enterprise)
asciilifeform: well suppose robot finds that btce is falling through the floor
asciilifeform: how does it withdraw the coin, to put elsewhere
adlai: it doesn't.
asciilifeform: or does it simply ring a bell.
adlai: but neither does a lens notice that a cork slice looks like a grid from close up
trinque: wtf is this myth where sbcl is slow
asciilifeform: so the thing isn't really automatic, but semi-?
adlai: well that's a bad analogy, cross-exchange arbitrage is entirely possible programmatically, just not yet implemented
asciilifeform: trinque: nfi where, it is the fastest cl i've personally used, hands-down (hand-massaged certain items in it to beat the shit out of cpp original, even)
trinque: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2192629
asciilifeform: read moar shitcombinator.
trinque: links therein...
trinque: https://lbolla.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/sbcl-quicker-than-c/
adlai: "time-arbitrage" (ie, buy-low-sell-high-and-hope-the-noise-continues) is entirely automatic (up to sane/profitable configuration), cross-exchange arbitrage is entirely unsupported. scalpl has no understanding of the fact that different markets on different exchanges might involve the same asset.
adlai: it DOES know that different markets on the same exchange could overlap, so a lower fruit is "triangular arbitrage" (eg, simultaneously trading btcusd, atcusd, and btcatc)
asciilifeform: trinque: the title of the article is retarded.
asciilifeform: is a shoe quicker than a blade of grass ?
asciilifeform: purple quicker than three ?
adlai: trinque: maybe you're confusing the slowness of compilation with that of execution? python is a very slow compiler.
trinque: the guy just added optimization flags to a debian benchmark
asciilifeform: adlai: presumably you are speaking of the older python ?
trinque: you're meant to y'know, click the links in pages
asciilifeform: (the compiler in sbcl)
trinque: adlai: I'm not confusing shit
adlai: asciilifeform: oh they released another one? better call the snake handlers.
trinque: I have shipped plenty of code that runs on sbcl.
adlai: oh there are links in the links, and idiots spreading false myths (as opposed to the other kind)
asciilifeform: ( for n00bz/readers - yes, the compiler of sbcl was in fact called 'python'... quite a bit prior to the scripting language )
adlai: strictly speaking isn't this cmucl's compiler?
asciilifeform: adlai: originally
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244575386963745@naggum.no.html << obligatory bathtub rocket
trinque: the guy whose resignation I linked forked it from cmucl and rewrote it in lisp
adlai: trinque: which link?
adlai: oh that link. william newman.
trinque mutters newman
adlai: python was always written in lisp. s/cmu/sb/ consisted of rewriting the bootstrapping logic.
adlai: http://jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/sbcl-0.0 << worth a read for anybody with even the most passing of interests in archaeology
mircea_popescu didn't click on newman link, because meh, google shit. but now since came up again, decided to check it out. went to archive.is - not there.
mircea_popescu: "This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference. Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100."
mircea_popescu: pshh.
trinque: adlai's link is in there, but from jun 2012
trinque: did not get updated
trinque: Therefore, under this system there should be no need to resort to hairy hacking when fundamental internal structures are to be changed, or to "compile it with itself a few times until things settle down". << what the fuck?
trinque: what system compiled itself "until things settle"
adlai: cmucl
mircea_popescu: i dunno, and i can't be arsed to find out. everyone involved sounds exactly like a bunch of whiny fucktards with clitorii.
asciilifeform: the sleep of fits-in-head breeds monsters.
adlai: this is funny: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/cmucl-build/00_README but this is funnier: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/doc/crosscompile.html
asciilifeform: ## Recompiling CMUCL is not an exact science... ##
asciilifeform: ## [Peter Van Eynde, September 1998] ##
asciilifeform: ^ do we need to read past this ?
adlai: yeah, click the second link
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: to counterbalance the oestrogen overload, here's some harm : "Without boasting, I can tell you that, when Volodya struck me across the ear and spat in my face, I really got him, so that he won't forget it. It was only after that that I hit him with his primus and it was evening when I hit him with the iron. So he didn't die straight away by any means. This doesn't prove that I cut his leg off as early as the afternoon. He was
mircea_popescu: still alive then. Whereas Andryusha I killed simply from inertia, and I can't hold myself responsible for that. Why did Andryusha and Yelizaveta Antonovna fall into my hands anyway? They had no business springing out from behind the door. I am being accused of bloodthirstiness; they say I drank blood, but that is not true: I licked up the pools of blood and stains -- it is a man's natural urge to wipe out the traces of even
mircea_popescu: the most trivial of crimes. And also I did not rape Yelizaveta Antonovna. In the first place, she was no longer a virgin; and secondly I was having dealings with a corpse, so she has no cause for complaint. What about the fact that she just happened to have to give birth? Well, I did pull out the infant. The fact that he was not long for this world anyway, well that's really not my fault. I didn't tear his head off; it was hi
asciilifeform: no wonder this thing was shot in the head and left to die in a shallow grave.
mircea_popescu: s thin neck that did that. He was simply not created for this life. It's true that I stomped their dog to a pulp around the floor, but it's really cynical to accuse me of murdering the dog when in the immediate vicinity, it might be said, three human lives had been obliterated. The infant I don't count. Well, all right then, in all this (I can agree with you) it is possible to discern a degree of severity on my part. But to c
mircea_popescu: onsider it a crime that I squatted down and defecated on my victims -- that is really, if you'll excuse me, absurd. Defecation is an urge of nature and consequently can in no sense be criminal. All things considered, I do understand the misgivings of my defence counsel, but all the same I am hoping for a complete acquittal."
asciilifeform: lel didn't oglaf do a special on this one
mircea_popescu: possibly.
asciilifeform: http://oglaf.com/insummary <<
mircea_popescu: aha
adlai: "I was having dealings with a corpse, so she has no cause for complaint." << excellent argument for gutting cmucl rather than sbcl, unless you get off on the screams
trinque already pulled up the tinyscheme source, will read as he drinks wine
asciilifeform: adlai: i think all of the gentlemen present 'get off on the screams', yes
mircea_popescu: note also the implied (and ancient) notion that only virgins may be raped.
asciilifeform: trinque: i recommend to pull up mine, rather than the heathen one, but the difference is not large
trinque: alrighty.
adlai also suspects that "gutting cmucl" would involve redoing so much of newman's work that it's much lazier to just gut an old version of sbcl
asciilifeform: trinque: also it isn't a given that tinyscheme is necessarily the best starting point for implementing a civilized scheme
mircea_popescu: wtf is this c code to glue lisp compiled lisp together. good god.
asciilifeform: the empty sheet of paper + the standard is a good alternative.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it runs on a unix, there'll be glue. by the pound.
mircea_popescu: why pretend then. just have a honest interpreter written in c sit down and take your repl.
trinque: clisp
asciilifeform: other thing, trinque, is that interpreters won't be breaking any speed records.
adlai: incidentally, on a slightly related topic: a friend has taken me up on my (foolish, drunken) offer to help teach him programming. i'm tempted to start with a "sheet of paper + mccarthy" approach, since he's yet unspoiled by algol; has anybody tried teaching in this manner?
asciilifeform: adlai: yes.
asciilifeform: it only works in my experience on gurlz
adlai: (the fallback is http://eloquentjavascript.net/ which is written by a lisper and contains numerous inline repls)
asciilifeform: it won't work on someone you aren't fucking, there will not be the necessary patience.
mircea_popescu: or knuth.
adlai: lol
trinque: hm, mircea_popescu has me wanting to read clisp now
BingoBoingo: <adlai> incidentally, on a slightly related topic: a friend has taken me up on my (foolish, drunken) offer to help teach him programming. i'm tempted to start with a "sheet of paper + mccarthy" approach, since he's yet unspoiled by algol; has anybody tried teaching in this manner? << Don't skip to 12 without working the other steps. Only 13 can be skipped to.
trinque: there is an honesty to not doing this bootstrapping madness while a lisp OS is absent
mircea_popescu: trinque a perhaps even workable alternative would be, adalisp.
asciilifeform: adlai: 'little schemer' by sussman. but again i cannot recommend doing this to just 'friend'
BingoBoingo: ^ Hence necessity of 13th step
mircea_popescu: "7) Paranoid folks like to recompile just again, to be sure that the new system has no artifact from the old running Lisp. These instructions also build the very-optional parts like CLX at this stage. If you want to do that, activate the for loop near the end." << i'm not sure paranoid is the word here.
mircea_popescu: seriously, the vague is getting ridiculous. "artefacts" ?
trinque: asciilifeform: thunked a lady with both that and sicp once, and she actually read them
mircea_popescu: why not just build a fucking tool to spot "artefacts"
mircea_popescu: o, wait...
adlai: mircea_popescu: that tool is called "recompile once more, just to be safe"
mircea_popescu: what is this, distillation ?
mircea_popescu: buncha vocational drunks.
adlai: precisely, as opposed to crystallization
BingoBoingo: <trinque> asciilifeform: thunked a lady with both that and sicp once, and she actually read them << This is the difference. The fucking.
trinque: pls moar metaphor, I am not drunk yet
trinque pours another glass
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would anyone want to run anything produced in this manner.
adlai: make sure to avoid the methanol!
adlai: because the fractional still hasn't been invented yet
trinque: BingoBoingo: aha, in fact there was a thread where mircea_popescu explained that y'know, you teach the women things
trinque: and my heathen brain was astonished
asciilifeform: 'When people who can’t think logically design large systems, those systems become incomprehensible. And we start thinking of them as biological systems.' -- from lamport's 'The Future of Computing: Logic or Biology' (2003)
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu , nobody wants this ! any more than they 'want' ringworm.
asciilifeform: it just drops on'em
mircea_popescu: trinque fancy that, you had to have someone tell you! nature teaches by example, you stick more data into woman each time than you ever did into all machines you ever touched. yet...
asciilifeform: for being a bunch of retarded pygmies
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/02prx/?raw=true << whole lamport thing , as found in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41, de-pdfulated
asciilifeform: pertinent.
mircea_popescu: ./lisp -core lisp.clcore, one line after they misspelled it as losp.clore is really fucking endearing, too.
trinque: the thing may very well be 10 systemd cycles in, given its age
mircea_popescu: so fucking idiotic, im bailing.
mircea_popescu: how can you lot put up with these idiots ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i've never even ~heard~ of any of these folk, nor read their spew, until this year.
BingoBoingo: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/09/16/george-stephanopoulos-pepe-frog-well-known-symbol-white-supremacist-movement/ << “You had an Instagram post last week that included Pepe the Frog, which is now a well-known symbol of the white supremacist movement,”
adlai: "verification is economically feasible only in a small number of applications???mainly, for fairly small programs that perform lifecritical functions. Verification techniques are being used successfully to help debug programs, at Microsoft and elsewhere" << please, tell me more about these small, lifecriticial, microsoft applications...
asciilifeform: adlai: you do know what happened to lamport, right ?
mircea_popescu: that are lifecritical.
adlai: not without googling, no.
asciilifeform: adlai: he got 'tenured' at one of those prestige farms where usg (via various muppetronics) pays eminent old folk to avoid being dangerous
asciilifeform: in this case, 'microshit research'
asciilifeform: believe or not, even xerox parc still exists. in this mode.
asciilifeform: even bell labs.
asciilifeform: big morgues, where they parked the lamports.
trinque: lamports parked themselves
asciilifeform: heemeyer-style
asciilifeform: ditch dug around'em, now welcome to your 'island' .
mircea_popescu: kinda why old people are not interesting.
adlai: yeah i doubt anybody forced him to sign; i suspect anybody who wasn't sufficiently dangerous for enough decades, eventually gets tired of poor impotence, and starts sucking the cock that slapped them
asciilifeform: though i knew an old dude who picked poverty and hunger over that new 'bell labs.'
mircea_popescu: and did he do anything ?
asciilifeform: went back to old trade he knew from su.
asciilifeform: teaching physics to collegiate imbeciles.
asciilifeform: complete with the obligatory weary dr. brin face.
mircea_popescu: well... so he... saved the usg some bucks, still didn't do anything. hero of soviets, medal.
mircea_popescu: if you're not going to do anything anyway, might as well take the lab.
adlai: asciilifeform & trinque : thank you for the suggestions. i'm meeting the guy tomorrow for his 2nd lession, i'll let him choose
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the mouse that got out of your bottle probably did not 'do anything' also.
asciilifeform: just went around, mousin', for rest of his days.
mircea_popescu: kinda why i released it, rather than you know, eating it.
mircea_popescu: adlai except their suggestions were essentially "drop the guy, pick up some chicks"
adlai: mircea_popescu: take which lab? teaching physics doesn't involve ~doing~ lab work, only grading it
asciilifeform: ( lol, i'm not the only one who was ever tempted to eat'em ?!! )
mircea_popescu: i was never tempted to eat them, no.
mircea_popescu: nor were they ever tempted to do anything.
mircea_popescu bbl
adlai: fwiw, the last chick i tried to teach lisp, lost patience for lisp ~before~ she lost patience for [my] cock
asciilifeform: adlai: we were discussing a dude who quit bell labs when it turned into lucent and 'well-managed' etc.
adlai makes the "stop waiting tables and learn to program" offer to ~all his friends, once he gets drunk enough
trinque: meh, chick I taught lisp said "cool, I know what a computer is now, sorta" and went back to being a chef
trinque: isn't for everyone
asciilifeform: adlai: do you actually think that you are doing them a favour thereby ?
adlai: since none yet have reached the point of not needing to wait tables - insufficient data for meaningful answer.
asciilifeform: i'm sure they will 'thank' adlai when they instead have to program in a salt mine.
adlai: my pitch has always been "look at me, i worked in the salt mine for less than a year and now live off my savings"
adlai: anybody i know well enough to receive the pitch, knows me well enough to know ~why~ i no longer mine
trinque: I have the decency not to goad my friends into joining an industry in a dark age, tyvm
trinque: bad enough I stuck my dick in this crazy
adlai: living off the savings would have more to do with bitcoin if i were less of an idiot, and had bought less at $1k and more at $10; but then i'd be living off the military discharge bonus, and wouldn't have mined to begin with
adlai: eh i try to keep the pitch minimal, and avoid repeating it (unless too drunk to remember the last one). one guy got repeated pitches but that's only because we lived together and he kept remarking on how i "make money by typing"
adlai: i'm not sure the 'dark age' is limited to this industry, it seems pretty global
trinque: that's fair.
adlai doesn't know anybody who likes their job enough to work more than they need, with the possible exception of his mom - who teaches yoga.
trinque: yoga chicks always seem happy
adlai: (private lessons. she long ago stopped doing group classes)
BingoBoingo: !~bc stats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 430171 | Current Difficulty: 2.2583287217945956E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 431423 | Next Difficulty In: 1252 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 8 hours, 19 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
adlai: Estimated Next Difficulty: 248,537,181,620 (+10.05%) << nice
adlai: btw, just to bury the earlier discussion of scalpl with shameless self-promotion: if anybody feels adventurous and wants to collaborate, speak up (PM is also OK)
adlai: ('collaborate' implies either having money to potentially lose, or fixing my bugs. preferably the former because i do occasionally do the latter)
trinque: if your thing works you should be flush with cash.
trinque: why should I give you any
asciilifeform: ^
adlai: [scalpl] seen from a distance, is a pretty good machine for converting ten thousand dollars into twenty thousand. [no footnote here! it can make money in crashing markets, too] But, given the [minimum trade size] it is profoundly useless as a machine for converting ten dollars into twenty.
asciilifeform: somehow i knew he'd say this.
asciilifeform: maybe heard it befoar.
BingoBoingo: Sell a kidney?
adlai: (with apologies to Dear Stanislav)
trinque: so work and save yourself 10 grand
trinque: with your sweet software job
asciilifeform: that's a ~month of (very threadbare) salt mine, ffs.
ben_vulpes: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#242 << plausible, sure, but what has actually happened is that a) the chicoms have diddled the phillips female bit such that it cams out at the slightest provocation and than on top of that the zamac used to replace it wears after so much as a single slipped drive and b) torx is a convenient workaround for the shit metals
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-16: [19:47:07] <mircea_popescu> ACTION just found out that phillips and torx heads respectively aren't mere "let's arbitrarily change standards to try and extract spurious rents via alleged intellectual property" ; but in fact have proper reasons to exist. a) phillips head is self-centering ; which is to say driver does not slip out of screw being driven. this was major
scriba: advantage in early automotive work. torx does not cam out ; which was major advantage in
ben_vulpes: i *know* how to sink screws well, and the zinc plated shit for sale is ~unusable even by me.
trinque: Framedragger: yer thing weirds up /me
ben_vulpes: ^^ yeah
asciilifeform: aaaah so ~that~ is what it was.
trinque: yep, it's barfing the raw protocol for it
ben_vulpes: the final nail (screw?) is that even traditionally phillips applications (eg framing) now come with the torx heads.
ben_vulpes: because the soft metal won't drive 3 inches through pine with a phillips any more.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'abundance for all.' 'progress.'
asciilifeform hoards screws, and regrets nothing
adlai: trinque: fwiw, $10k invested in something with a sane risk/reward curve can't net more than ~$100/mo for very long.
ben_vulpes: on the flip side, torx work (for now). i sunk oodles of self-drillers this past weekend without a single slip.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: realize, this is invitation for the next round of metal-softening.
asciilifeform: it will continue
asciilifeform: because there is exactly nothing that would prevent it.
mod6: asciilifeform hoards screws, and regrets nothing << im with ya. they don't make shit like they used to.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i hope this is a comment for the log readers
mod6: i feel a gas-can-rage bubbling up
asciilifeform: eventually there will be separate 'underground' suppliers for ~reasonable building materials, just like you can only get actual food in usa from 'special' suppliers.
trinque hums don't fear the reaper
adlai: !~google needs more cowbell
jhvh1: adlai: need more cowbell on Vimeo: <https://vimeo.com/55624839>; Needs More Cowbell | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/needs-more-cowbell>; Watch More Cowbell From Saturday Night Live - NBC.com: <http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/more-cowbell-with-will-ferrell-on-snl--video--saturday-night-live--nbc/n41046>
ben_vulpes: not necessarily underground so much as unknown by people
ben_vulpes: http://www.mcmaster.com/#wood-screws/=14796fw
ben_vulpes: mcmaster carr is one of the last bastions of sanity in fab supplies.
ben_vulpes: also i
ben_vulpes: don't hate?
ben_vulpes: their website
ben_vulpes: which was almost impossible to type
trinque: speaking of rot, asciilifeform you'll like this
trinque: I went to mount an encrypted openbsd drive on a different (same endian) arch
trinque: commad proposed I provide it a *new* passphrase
trinque: *command
trinque: guess who's reinstalling heirloom gentoo
asciilifeform unfamiliar with disk crypto on openbsd
trinque: braindamaged thing uses the same command to init a drive as attach the softraid again next time
asciilifeform: thing prolly can't distinguish between bad-decrypt-because-bad-pw and bad-decrypt-because-author-was-dropped-as-a-child
asciilifeform: this is typical.
trinque: becaues autism dictates you're actually creating the /dev/softraid0
trinque: so then same command
ben_vulpes: ahaha trinque biting off gentoo quest again?
asciilifeform: didn't we have a successful gentoo initiation recently ? who was it
asciilifeform: ... diana_coman ?
trinque: I have a disk image of old gentoo, but hey, why not see how hte kids do it these days
ben_vulpes waves at asciilifeform
trinque: it's probably terrible
asciilifeform: she, iirc, used my recipe, even
ben_vulpes: hnm is a gentoo machine
ben_vulpes: ("hateful noise machine")
trinque: I have a shell script that shits out the gentoo I like
adlai: "That all happened twenty years ago. In retrospect, thinking of programs as automobiles wasn???t so bad. Automobiles are pretty simple. If their car stops working, people expect any good mechanic to be able to figure out why and fix the problem" << Welcome to the 21st Century, where the computers still don't work but now they're in everything!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> eventually there will be separate 'underground' suppliers for ~reasonable building materials, just like you can only get actual food in usa from 'special' suppliers. << At the moment they sit on the shelf next to unreasonable building materials with smallest difference in price tag.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in some cases, aha
BingoBoingo: Price of insane material usually within 50% of sane materials
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The sane hand tools though are normally seperated from insane tools and spread out by department while insane tools are all gathered in same pile.
ben_vulpes: https://smile.amazon.com/Stanley-85-610-10-Inch-MaxGrip-Adjustable/dp/B00009OYGZ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472488491&sr=8-3&keywords=vice+wrench << related
adlai: lamport's DnD example is perfectly logical: (apply #'<folder> file) -> "label this file as belonging to that folder", (apply #'<folder>) -> "show me what you got"
adlai: files don't actually move!
BingoBoingo: From herr vulpes link: "This is like a cross between a vice-grip and a crescent wrench. This is great for bath/kitchen plumbing when you need to remove stubborn fixtures and do not want to embed the channel lock/pipe wrench teeth into the chrome fixture and leave rough teeth marks on the smooth surface. The wrench locks down without marring the polished finish and it will not fall off if your hands are slippery wet. I also would like to
BingoBoingo: see this tool in a 12" version. "
BingoBoingo: which is exactly wrong. This a job for pipe wrench and cloth, or in the case of sinks a basin wrench which works on the UNDERSIDE!
ben_vulpes: fucking perverse
BingoBoingo: Real pliers are found in electrical department where fake pliers still abound. Real wrenches are found in plumbing, or for automotive applications from the vendor who operates out of prominently branded boxtruck.
adlai will read the lamport piece to the friend as a patience test, before suggesting sicp / little schemer
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ... diana_coman ? << yeah, heard it went fairly smooth.
adlai: if he asks to read it himself rather than sit through 10min of my silky smooth... failure
BingoBoingo: Real saw comes from antique dealer or garage sale
BingoBoingo: proper levels are found in flooring

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